Chatting with Freelancer Magazine editor Sophie Cross

Sophie Cross – Freelancer Magazine

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophcross

Website: https://freelancermagazine.co.uk/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/FreelancerMagz

Emma Cossey

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Podcast Transcript

Emma Cossey: This week, we’ve got a special guest, a very special guest, freelance royalty, I would say. We’ve got Sophie Cross, who if you are a freelancer, there’s a very good chance you’ll come across Freelance Magazine. And Sophie is the brains and brawns behind it basically. She came up with the concept, and she’s done incredible work with it. And it’s just from what I’ve seen from an outsider, it’s just grown and grown. So, when I had the opportunity to get Sophie on the podcast, I jumped at it. And I think you’re all gonna really enjoy this chat. So, Sophie, I’m gonna pass over to you first, do you want to tell us a little bit about your freelance journey? Because I know you’ve been doing it for quite a while.

Sophie Cross: Thank you for that lovely intro. Yeah, so I’ve been freelance for 10 years now, nearly exactly. I know, because I got my rescue dog 10 years ago, in June. So, I know that was one of my big incentives. And I started off, I always just wanted my own business, and it seems, you know, one day, I had the kind of light bulb idea that I’m actually going freelance as a marketer, which was what my I was in a corporate role in marketing and hospitality marketing, you know, would actually be a really good way to have my own business because I had the skills and also the start-up costs were low. So, the risk felt, you know, lower than all my pipe dreams of having restaurants and cafes, and all the other business ideas I had. So, I started that, and I was lucky enough to take on a lot of ex employers or people that I used to work with and have moved on to other businesses, maybe they became my clients.

So, I have quite a lot of big clients. I didn’t really appreciate it at the time, I think because I’d come from quite big corporate names like Hilton and Merlin. I didn’t kind of realise that it was quite impressive to working for these brands from an outsider’s perspective, because I actually kind of crave not working for big corporates anymore, which is always the way isn’t it. But then be careful what you wish for, because in the pandemic that came true, and you know, I was kind of still working for lots of travelling hospitality clients, and had some really nice work, actually. I’d move more into copywriting and content, because that was just largely what I was being asked to do it from my work. The people I used to work with knew that I think my writing was quite strong, and I ended up those are the projects I kind of enjoyed doing, like web copy and brochures and things like that, you know, don’t realise it at the time until you look back and join up the dots and go, ‘Oh, I loved creating hotel brochures, and now I make a magazine, and maybe there’s not a million miles difference in that.’ So yeah, I lost all my clients in the pandemic. And we’d just moved back to London from Exmoor and I was kind of determined to you know, I was like raring to go and the pandemic happened a month later, lots of people have similar stories I know. And I started making marketing courses online. And I kind of knew that I could either target them at hospitality industry, which didn’t seem like a very good idea at the time, because they had quite a lot on their plate. But didn’t think they would probably really be after marketing courses when they were just, you know, worried about how they would ever survive. So decided to target them at like freelancers and small businesses, because I was already part of a lot of freelance communities on Twitter. And, you know, it was something I felt like, the other industry, I felt like I knew about like how to market yourself as a freelancer. And off the back of those courses, the idea for freelancer magazine came about I think, because it was the pandemic, we were all online so much. We were all kinda like sharing content. And you know, it was really a time like a real high point book community. So, yeah, I just realised there wasn’t a freelancer magazine. And I knew that I would know about it if there was one. And I thought it would be a really great way to, start sharing more content. Like the magazine is quite focused around, not solely, but we do kind of go a lot about how to market yourself and sharing people’s stories, and knowledge and kind of mistakes people have made or best practice for want of a better phrase. So yeah, the magazine was born in 2021. So, I came up with the idea actually on New Year’s Day 2021. We started the Kickstarter in February. The Kickstarter ended in on I think, on April 1st, and the first issue launched by the end of April 2021. So, we’ve just had our second anniversary issue, and it’s quarterly so that was issue nine. Yeah, that’s my journey.

Emma Cossey: It’s incredible because I think I went through a stage of not reading magazines, I’ve had loads during my teenage years. But then in the last, I’d say, like four or five years, there’s been such a surge in kind of beautiful indie magazines that have just the even the quality of the paper, and they’re just such a joy to read. And it kind of seemed like you came along with perfect kind of topic. In that kind of indie magazine, I don’t know, if you would call it, it probably is called something different. But it’s such a beautiful magazine as well, it’s so well thought out. And it’s nice also, there’s a little bit of advertising in there. But it’s not like overwhelming, like, you know, sometimes you pick up Vogue or whatever. And it’s like 100 pages without adverts. This feels all like it works very well, in terms of the balance between the editorial and the adverts and things like that. So was the plan was to make it a, like an actual printed one or digital or both?

Sophie Cross: So, yeah, it was always going to be print first. It just doesn’t make sense for us not to have a digital version, because you know, you’ve obviously already got the files. And it’s just easier to distribute to, if people want it, especially if they’re kind of abroad, or lots of people want it if they want to have access to it the whole time. We actually do, we just launched our new website, we actually do have a print and digital version, like printed and digital option now, so people can have both for a discounted rate. But yeah, I guess the idea was, we were so I felt really overwhelmed with being online, you know, I try and try my best to get away from it as much as possible. And, you know, I just knew that kind of creating content, as blogs was not going to be anywhere near as appealing for people. And I just loved this idea that people would receive it through the door, they would kind of feel part of a club just by receiving it, because they would know that other people were receiving it. And I kind of remember getting the Sunday Times as a child and having that feeling. And yeah, that people could just take a bit of time out to actually digest it and you know, go to a cafe, and I love seeing all those photos of people are like, oh, I’ve got it on my train journey, or I’ve taken it to a cafe or i’ve got it at the beach. And you know, you’re not there. And you know, if we published it all, kind of as blogs or something, it just wouldn’t be anywhere near as engaging. You know, Ange Lyons is our designer, and she does an amazing job of designing it. And we get that feedback about the advertising a lot as well actually, like they feel like part of a magazine. And actually, it’s because a lot of people that advertise are readers, are freelancers. And I think the artwork is consistently good from the ads as well, because people get it, they get the kind of, it’s kind of funny, it’s kind of like the feedback you didn’t expect to get, but it’s often. Like one of, you know, people say to us, oh, I read the ads, too. Yeah. It’s like such a good compliment, I think one that I never really expected to get.

Emma Cossey: I suppose it’s the nice thing about having such a specialist magazine, is you know that the ads are going to be something that very much appeals to people. So, it just becomes something that complements all the other content. But yeah, I completely agree. I always read the ads. Yeah. And it’s always fascinating. I also think one of the nice things about magazine is you’re very much, although it is designed to think to take time away from online, you seem to be very good as well about integrating a lot of like, making sure everybody’s hashtag, everyone’s usernames are in there and where people can follow them on Instagram. So, it doesn’t just feel like you’re reading it and leaving it. It feels like the conversation then carries on online when you want to go back.

Sophie Cross: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, that was very intentional that we wanted to connect people and it’s, it’s silly, but I think I overthink things massively. And, you know, you realise that actually just including stuff like that, like someone’s handle or where you find them at the end of their newsletter. Obviously, we want to do that for the people that we’re featuring anyway, because they’re giving up time and they’re giving up, you know, they’re sharing their stories generously. So, it’s nice on that aspect. But, you know, again, one of the best things is just hearing people go, oh, you know, and I connected, we connected off, I read your story in the magazine, and then people go on to have relationships or start to work together. But yeah, and it’s just kind of it’s quite simple, really, you know, these kinds of little things. But yeah, some stuff that probably in the past that would have massively over thought. And then it’s like, oh, this is how, you know, you connect to community because basically, a community is not you broadcasting to people, and it’s not even a two-way conversation. It’s connecting the people within the community to each other. And that’s just one of like, the real simple ways I think, we can do it.

Emma Cossey: It definitely has a very collaborative vibe. It definitely feels like that. So, what were kind of your biggest learning curves when it comes to launching and running a magazine?

Sophie Cross: I think it’s just, it’s my dream business. You know, it really is. And, you know, there’s a lot of kind of, I guess there’s kind of two camps. And I think it depends on the business that you have, you know, but I think there’s two camps of like, whether you should sort of follow your passions and things like that, or they shouldn’t be left as your passions. And I do think I just couldn’t have done this, if it wasn’t my passion, like, I really couldn’t have continued doing it. But because, you know, I already love the community that I was part of, and lots of people kind of came in and joined the magazine community as well. I was already the person that was like, if you want to talk to me about setting up your business, if you want to talk to me about say, going freelance, I will be there, like, get a glass of wine. Let’s talk about it. So just like I never get bored of hearing other people’s stories, and, you know, yeah, so that’s great. But so, I would say, it is hard, though, you know, it’s really hard. I think it’s like, it’s relentless. The momentum, you know, you have to keep up the momentum. And we’re quarterly, which, you know, I think at one point, I did consider going monthly for about five seconds. And I’m like, I don’t even know how people do it. Like, I really don’t. And obviously, we kind of we haven’t, it’s 100 pages. So, if it was, more often we would have less pages, but I think it’s nice, because then you get the breadth of the content in one go. You know, if it was a 20 pager, and you know, and we also don’t have to worry too much about being topical because it’s quarterly. So, it’s more kind of like a, you know, a resource that you can keep on your bookshelf. It’s quite timeless, but we’d have the Dunker newsletter that we can be a bit more topical with. Yeah, I think in some respects, it’s turning these things into a positive, because it’s kind of helpful to have that momentum, you know, it’s kind of helpful to have to keep going. I’ve just learned so many things. Like, it’s amazing now to have a team, you know. I basically broke most of the first four issues myself. And that just, you know, that isn’t sustainable. And I don’t know how I did it looking back now, but so I suppose, you know, one of the main lessons I’ve learned about business is like you, you just can’t do it all yourself. And the more you can start to kind of outsource little bits. It’s such a hard balancing act, you know, from a cash flow perspective, but also from a trial and error, you know, getting it right what you need to outsource. But you know, they sort of say, you should be you know, you should only be doing the tasks that really kind of, you add the most value to so I think it is true if you can start outsourcing things like you know, as a freelancer, I always had an accountant and things like that. And but yeah, from the magazine, obviously, it just wasn’t possible for me to do everything. So, I think this is one of the biggest learning curves is like how to get comfortable with outsourcing and how that process works best, you know. You have to almost work out the process yourself first before you can pass it on to somebody else. So, but it is also amazing to work with other people, I probably didn’t think that, you know, it was possible to get so much enjoyment out of like having a team. I always thought I would be like quite a bad. Like I would be quite a bad manager. But yeah, it’s also when it’s awesome to like be paying other people you know, and things like that. Like, that’s, that’s such a nice incentive to kind of scale as well.

Emma Cossey: Yeah, and I think you’ve worked with, because I know Ange was on one of our collaboration episodes a few months ago. But I think you guys have worked together well, almost since the start?

Sophie Cross: Yeah, she was. I told her I think the day or the day after I came up with the idea. I texted her and said, ‘Do you want to make a magazine with me?’ And she said, ‘yes’. And if you know if it wasn’t for her, it just would have been a complete non-starter because she was so supportive at the beginning, like we got the community really involved from day one. I was didn’t have this attitude of like, hey, let’s keep it a secret until we’ve worked it out. I was like, Let’s just tell people, and it was really nice because then people got involved, you know, and they chose what they wanted the brand to look like and yeah, all sorts of things. Like before we launched the Kickstarter, and we started building the database that way, but yeah, if it hadn’t been for Ange kind of getting on board and saying yeah, like, I’ll support you from the beginning. We’d also made a magazine together before, so we’d made a magazine for the big hotel group. And that got pulled in the pandemic. We hadn’t actually met in person before, Freelancer magazine. So, it was really nice. We’ve worked together for maybe like two years. But I was actually based in Somerset, that someone by just moved back to London. So just before we launched the Kickstarter, like I went up to meet her, when we made a little video like to be part of the Kickstarter video, and yeah, it’s just been incredible. Like, it’s been amazing working with her from, on this. And, you know, she always calls me like Sophie no amends cross, because I just kind of leave it up to her from a design perspective, because I just think she does such an awesome job on it. So yeah, I think she likes it as well. So that’s good.

Emma Cossey: Sounds like a dream client, to be honest. No amends, that’s awesome. So, you touched on the writing side. Now I know some of the people who are listening to this are potentially writers or would just love to write a piece. So, do you have any kind of tips for people who might want to pitch an article or an idea?

Sophie Cross: Yeah sure, we actually do have a submission form now. We launched our new website a few weeks ago, and under the community page, there is a submission form, which is just really, I think it’s also important for us, because if people can’t kind of, it’s gonna sound really bad. But if people can’t be bothered to fill a form in, then that’s kind of a first, like, deal breaker for us. I suppose we have focused more on building an editorial team. So, we don’t take, like the magazine is more based around that than having like, lots of submissions. But that’s not to say that we don’t ever accept them. I’d say my perspective as an editor, is always what’s best for the reader. So, if you’re going to come in and sell an idea, and it starts with me, me, me, and I think I, you know, I’d love to have my story published. That’s kind of almost like an automatic no, no, for me, because I know that your first, like, priority isn’t the reader, and what would be helpful to the reader. So, I would say, you know, think about it from the readers perspective. And also, you know, read a copy of the biggest, they don’t like amazingly or not, I do get quite a lot of people go, like almost like dangling, try and dangling the carrot for me to say like, if you let me submit, believe it or not, like I fit fine. It’s like bit a bit like if you let me submit, like, I’ll read the magazine, and I’m like,

 Emma Cossey: Wow.

Sophie Cross: I’m like, Yeah, that’s okay. But I know, you know, I just feel like the, the people that we have accepted as writers and, you know, some of whom are now part of the team, our people that get it, like they really get the magazine. And they, you know, that is demonstrated through, you know, so that that’s what I would say. And I would say, you know, I know what it’s like from a from an outsider’s perspective, I know what it’s like pitching. I know that before I had this perspective, I would have made some real schoolboy errors, you know, I’m really kind of embarrass myself. And it’s like, it’s not until you are kind of on the other side of it, that you really do realise. And I suppose now it’s quite nice because I have the perspective of being a freelancer. But also having, like, I am also a client for other people. But then I have clients and things like that. And I also like get to get to hear millions of other freelancer’s story. So, I have kind of all this knowledge now, it’s kind of quite a unique position. But I understand like, before I had that, I was making like quite a lot of booboo, so I get that I’ve probably done the same things. But yeah, I would say that that is probably what most editors are looking for, like just that you have. And also, like, look at the features they have, like, all of our features are pretty much regular. So, we’re going to be looking for content around, you know, and that just instantly demonstrates that you’ve got knowledge of the publication. If you’re like, you know, I see that you’ve got this three tips micro column, like I think that these tips would be really good for your reader. So yeah, I would say those are probably my top tips. We also have like, you know, you dig on the website a little bit and say like on our advertising pages, we have the upcoming themes. I’m not sure if we have them on the submissions form too. But yeah, if you can just do a little bit of groundwork like that. So, it just shows. Okay, I’ve actually thought about this. And yeah, you’re thinking like put the reader first not yourself first, then that’s a good, a really good start I’d say.

Emma Cossey: I think it’s on the last page of your magazine as well, the printed one, isn’t it. Where you’ve got what to expect in the next issue

Sophie Cross: Yes, it is, yeah. And actually, probably to think a couple of issues ahead is maybe like, we’re quarterly. So, but you know, by the time nine is launched, we’ve already finalised a lot of our content for 10. Amazingly, amazingly enough. So, we kind of now, I would be looking at ideas for 11 and 12. And kind of would already have things in place. But yeah, I would say like, we still we’d have some gaps for 10. But yeah, definitely look at like, what features already exist. And you know, what features have different people writing them each month, each quarter. Because those are the ones you know, we’re probably looking for people for.

Emma Cossey: Awesome. What’s been your proudest moment with the magazine?

Sophie Cross: I think having the team meetings now like to kind of be on a zoom team meeting with, like, you know, a few other people. And also, we have virtual co-working. So, we have volunteer virtual co-working hosts. So, we’ve hosted our first like, Zoom catch up for those for those hosts yesterday. And I think to be on a zoom call, you know, and have people that, yeah, but just to have people around that have kind of are supporting or working, you know, with the community that kind of really believe in what we’re doing, and, that you know, help take it to the next level. And like, next week, I’m doing a road show, like a UK. Well, an England based roadshow. So yeah, it starts next week, and we’re gonna go to lots of different locations. And then we’ve got like, a Brighton date in June. And I think we’ll be in Edinburgh in August. So, I think like, there’s quite a small number of us that, you know, we’re sort of going Liverpool, Bradford, Exeter. And you know, we might have about 10 of each one. I think London’s gonna be quite a big date, we might get kind of 30 at that. But it just sort of thought, wow, like, how amazing to, you know, go to Bradford and be able to get 10 People that love your magazine and love the community and want to meet other people and want to be part of it. So yeah, I think just connecting people and having, it’s really touching to have, like, the support of people and whatever that looks like. Whether that’s people like sharing about the virtual co-working afterwards or, you know, opportunities like this, talk about it. It’s just like, they’re mind blowing.

Emma Cossey: It’s not just a magazine anymore. It’s literally a movement. Because you are moving all over the UK.

Sophie Cross: Yeah, it is, and funnily enough, we have, if you subscribe by the new website, we have a membership area dedicated for subscribers now. So, there’s like some additional things that you get exclusively for subscribers. So, you’ll get like, access to some events, first discounted tickets for like our Christmas party, you’ll get some exclusive content, merch, like discounted advertising, things like that. But we call that area, the movement. And my husband actually said to me, he was like, I was like, “I really want to think of a name for it. Like the, you know, people can kind of feel part of over time”, and I was like, I’ve got it, I think I want to call it the movement, because also music is quite a big thing for us. And like, you know, hosting parties and things. He was like, “Oh, I think it sounds a bit political”. And I was like, “perfect”. And he was like, “I think you might need to soften it a bit”. And I was like, “Okay, cool, like I’ve put a Madagascar ‘I like to move it move it’ GIF at the top of the page. Like is that softened enough?”

Emma Cossey: Perfect!

Sophie Cross: And he was like ‘Yeah perfect!’ So yeah, it’s kind of nice that we’re taking on that theme of movement. And yeah, hopefully we are a big part of this kind of freelance movement that’s happening. You know, freelance is the future of all of this and contributing to know helping people grow freelance businesses that they love and supporting people kind of do that in whichever way is right for them.

Emma Cossey: Yeah, and I think one of the few benefits of COVID and locked down is that it forced more companies to embrace a more remote, kind of remote approach. And I think that’s opened up a lot of opportunities for freelancers, so it can only keep growing.

Sophie Cross: Definitely

Emma Cossey: Working to your strengths, which were kind of saying about earlier, freelancing allows you to do that so that people can, or can work with specialists rather than hire someone nine to five who might be doing lots of jobs, you can I hire several freelancers doing less hours, but more specialised work, if that makes sense.

Sophie Cross: Yeah, absolutely. And I think just from an employee perspective, there’s probably a lot of like a big education piece around, you know how best to work with freelancers. But what I, and the magazine really believes in. And you know, I think sort of launching a new website and having this movement area, kind of, which is small at the moment, you know, I guess people aren’t really using it too much at the moment. But, you know, it really struck me that it kind of goes back to like, the proudest thing, being the people it is the power of connecting people, you know, especially freelancers, who, you know, I did it for years, for probably six or seven years, maybe a bit less, five or six years, was just working in a really isolated way. You know, only really had contact with my clients. So I had like, nothing, like no benchmark, nothing to compare to, no kind of support or friendships. And actually, like, the friendships I’ve made through the freelance communities are so much stronger than maybe friendships, I, you know, people that I used to see in the office every day, you know. It’s like, you really can find a bunch of like minded people, and just people that are so generous, you know, it will really shock you at first, like, you know, it really is collaboration over competition. So, you know, that is 100% what I’m here for. And also helping freelancers to see themselves as businesses, I think that that is really important. And you know, that whatever that looks like to you, but just kind of think it just even helps to create like a bit of separation as well between your personal life and your work life and boundaries. We were talking about it before the podcast slightly weren’t we, like, boundaries and routine. It’s easy to give. You know, it’s easy to give the advice, isn’t it?

Emma Cossey: Yes, unfortunately, feelings and emotions and moods. Annoyingly muddy the water on that front. But, yeah, no, it is very important. Funnily enough, I saw a TikTok earlier, actually, which was saying about how people make all these friendships through their workplace. And then someone popped up with a stitch was like, yeah, it’s a shared trauma of working together. That’s why they’re friends. That’s like the best friends are the ones that are you worked with in really terrible places. Whereas I think freelance friendships are not from like shared trauma. They’re from shared passion, shared interests, shared, loving what we do. And yeah, the challenges. But we are so much stronger when we all do support each other rather than, like you say, I’ve always said about the collaborate rather than compete, because it’s the freelance industry is just, it’s not like that. It’s not like people are trying to, like, stab each other in the back to get up to the next level. I think everybody knows that there’s clients now for everybody. And we all have to find our own ways to work.

Yeah, a rising tide lifts all boats. They say, don’t they.

Emma Cossey: Exactly.

Sophie Cross: Yeah, I mean, I have a couple of real good friends from my corporate days, like long term, who have become actually my very best friends. But I feel like, by and large, you know, when you choose to kind of socialise, or connect with people in the freelance communities, it’s kind of out of choice. Whereas when you were in corporate, like I was in kind of in corporate employment, you were kind of forced together. And actually, were kind of so miserable, that we would just go to the pub every night and just spend our money drinking, bitching about work. And it just seems nuts. I was sat in the pub with my little sister the other day, she’s like, nearly 20 years younger than me. And, you know, it was like, we were about to go to Hamilton the musical but it was sat in a pub in Victoria kind of five o’clock on a, I don’t know what day it was, Tuesday. And she was just like, God, like, these people look so miserable. And I was like, yeah, one of my kind of pieces of advice would probably be like, if you get a, you know, a work or an office role, for instance. Don’t spend the time after work in the pub with the same people just talking about, moaning about work, because that’s all you’ve kind of got in common, you know, you’re not, but actually, oh my god, like with the freelance communities. I’ve you know, people are like, meeting up to go on hikes together. And you know, we, being from the freelance community, is amazing. They have this amazing circle platform now. And then they had a meet up in London the other day, which was crazy golf. You know, we just do all sorts of things like this. And you know, obviously, like, we take work seriously as well, because I think freelancers do like we have to write, there’s no way to hide. But, you know, I believe that we can have a lot of fun with it, too. And we get to choose a lot of what that looks like and we shouldn’t forget that.

Emma Cossey: Yeah, why be a bad boss yourself and not allow yourself to do these fun things. Be a better boss?

Sophie Cross: Yes, for sure. It’s funny that yeah, I think someone said that to me, maybe a year or so ago. Was like, why do we tolerate the things when we’re a boss to ourselves that we wouldn’t tolerate off like a boss in employment? And it’s like, oh my God. Yeah. Like if your boss was like, Why do you have to work until seven o’clock at night? Or you can’t take a holiday or this? Like, we would be like up in arms about it, wouldn’t we? But yeah, that’s a good always a good thing mantra to remember. I think like, be a better boss to yourself.

Emma Cossey: That’s what we need to do about the holidays, when we go on holiday. Instead of feeling like, oh, I should be working. We should be good bossing ourselves and saying, like, if we, yeah.

Sophie Cross: Yeah, I do think that is something that it was easier to switch off. I mean, you would come still come back to a mountain. But you know, it would kind of like you would be able to switch off entirely. And, like I said to you before this recording, I put my out of office on for the first time in like 10 years for the holiday I’ve just taken. I just have generally always found it more stressful not to and I still check in, you know, but I just decided at this time, I was going to put an out of office on to say, you know, it’s going to be a while to respond to me. But yeah, which was nice, but comes with its own anxiety when you get back, I suppose.

Emma Cossey: Yes, that good old inbox. Right. So, where can we find you online?

Sophie Cross: So, I’m a LinkedIn geek.

Emma Cossey: You are, you are so good on LinkedIn.

Sophie Cross: A few years ago, I don’t think I would be saying this. But yeah, I’m a LinkedIn geek. So, I’m so like, my URL is /sophcross. But I think if you type in Sophie Cross, you’ll find me on LinkedIn. And that’s probably the best place to connect. Like, drop me a DM, say you heard this podcast and yeah, I would love to chat and be connected.

Emma Cossey: What I’ll do is I’ll put in the notes. I’ll put the website, the Dunker newsletter, because that’s always really interesting. And I love that you kind of do the bullet point links, so it’s not too overwhelming as well. It’s something you can take away something quite easily.

Sophie Cross: Yeah, it drops at 4pm Every Thursday, so I’ve got to go and finish this week’s Dunker. But um, yeah, we have a newsletter, especially for freelancers and freelancermagazine.co.uk has everything. Events, courses, the magazine, the Dunker sign up, resources, free resources. So yeah, check it out. But yeah, drop me a connection on LinkedIn. And it’d be awesome.

Emma Cossey: Perfect, thank you so much for coming on. I would urge everybody to check out the magazine. I think I’m due the next one. I think is it out this month.

Sophie Cross: It’s out now. Yeah, just landed last week.

Emma Cossey: So yeah, I think I’m one of the later in the month ones, so it should be a little bit later. But I have like a magazine in most of the rooms now because you’ve released enough that I’ve got them in most of the rooms somewhere. And when my husband found out, I would have been, because I had I think the top three tips one, a bit in there. He had it all printed out and put into a frame for me. So that’s up on my wall, my little office wall. But yeah, it’s a wonderful magazine, and I love what you’re doing so. And good luck with the tour. I hope it goes really well.

Sophie Cross: Thank you so much. Thank you for your support in every way.