Decluttering is not just for your home. It can also be done mentally or emotionally. This week I am joined by a friend and freelance decluttering coach, Susie Boutal, who explains how she helps people to declutter their lives, so they can find the space to do the things they want to do. For any ADHDers, this is really helpful for getting s**t done!
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Susie Boutal
Susie Boutal is a qualified coach, mum of three and life-long declutter-er. She helps people find their space to live through decluttering- physically, mentally and emotionally.
Website: https://www.aspaceforliving.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aspaceforliving
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/387272239847132
Quiz: https://www.aspaceforliving.co.uk/quiz-1
Transcript
Emma Cossey
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to an episode where we have a wonderful guest, a freelance guest. And this is actually someone who’s been a friend of mine for several years, many, many years, actually, I think now, since we both had our little ones when they were babies. Susie Boutal is joining me who is a decluttering coach. Now I’ve known Susie, we’ve kind of dipped in and out of each other’s businesses for years. She’s brilliant. Initially, when she was getting started in the business, she was fantastic at putting all these items on eBay for me. And she had a whole eBay business, which was fantastic for anyone like me who never gets around to putting things online. And then in the last few years, she’s been training as a decluttering coach. And I had to get one because we always get into loads of conversations whenever we’re having a chat, and I think there’s lots we can dive into around decluttering. And the impact it can have, as a freelancer on your working life and your home life. Especially when the lines can blur a little bit between working life and home life when you work from home. And don’t worry, we’re not going to be going into a kind of a talk about home perfection and having one of these you know beautiful houses, which is everything’s clean and spotless. That’s not my reality. I’ve been working with Susie, who has been working as my decluttering coach, and she knows that’s not my reality. And she’s fantastic at understanding about that kind of thing. So, if you are someone that’s worried about that, please don’t, please do listen in, because Susie’s got some tips to share with you. That was probably one of the longest intros I’ve ever done. But I’m going to hand over actually Susie to you to talk a bit more actually about yourself and your journey as a freelancer. So, tell me a little bit about how you got to where you are now.
Susie Boutal
Yeah, thanks Emma. So, as you mentioned, it did start with the eBay business. I think it’s about eight years ago now. So started doing eBay. Just found it was a really easy thing to kind of fit around a day job and kids and really flexible. And as you say it’s evolved decluttering, going into people’s houses. Then I trained as a coach, which has really given me the skills and yeah, just the ability to kind of help people make their own transformations and understand what’s going on. So yeah, now I work as a declutter coach. Different from kind of organisation, different from that, as Emma said, the Pinterest kind of perfect home, it’s not about those things, it’s about finding space to do the things you want to do. And I think in relation to freelancers, I just think, you know, your freelance career is your passion, and that’s why you’re doing it. So, giving yourself that best footing to kind of achieve the things you want in your own businesses, I just think it’s even more important, if you are already trying to find your passions.
Emma Cossey
And I think we were talking a little bit before the call about how decluttering isn’t just the stuff in your home, it can be digital, you know, emails, it can be apps, I have way too many. But also, one things you mentioned, as well was mental clutter as well. I think generally, it is almost just the things that block your day or your flow or your energy and things like that. Which sounds very spiritual, but even like, it can be everything from making sure that you don’t have all the clutter up the stairs, you’re not tripping upstairs and getting frustrated, to decluttering terrible clients who you don’t want to work with. So, there’s a wide variety of things and you work with clients to help them with their decluttering kind of things. What do you think are perhaps some of the most common challenges people find with decluttering?
Susie Boutal
So as yeah, as you say, so I work with physical, mental, and emotional clutter. You know, often the physical is that kind of presenting issue, but dig deeper, and there’s often lots of other things going on. And you mentioned digital clutter and clients that are not serving you, you know, all of that represents clutter and things that just get in the way of having that time and space to do what you want. So, I guess the most common complaints to start with is you know, the home, the desk, the physical things, and often what makes things harder is time you know, everyone’s busy and you kind of got different responsibilities to juggle. If you live with other people that can also create some friction. And I think in you know, especially for freelancers, when you are probably working and living in one space or one building it’s even more troublesome if you like to kind of separate and really understand what the clutter, what’s clutter and what you want, and how to move forward with getting rid of the things that you don’t want.
Emma Cossey
It’s overwhelming, isn’t it sometimes just I know, this was one of the reasons I came to you initially because I was overwhelmed. And one of my ADHD issues or challenges I have is impulse buying. I have lots of things that I bought on an impulse, often at the checkout, or just when I’m out and I haven’t taken my meds, and I need some dopamine, and I go and buy things. And unfortunately, we are a neurodivergent household. So, there’s a lot of that happening in our house, a lot of impulse buying, and it starts to create a lot of mess. And suddenly that purchase that gave you five minutes of joy, initially, is now absolutely draining that joy every time you go upstairs or go into a certain room, and there’s like so much clutter and things like that. So, I know it is a particularly big problem for people who are neurodivergent, particularly actually ADHD, it can be a particularly big problem for people in that kind of area.
Susie Boutal
Yeah, I think I get a lot of clients who have neurodiversity, and it is because they reach a point where possibly they’ve been diagnosed a bit later on in life, and they’ve been struggling, and just not knowing why it’s so much harder, or, you know, they get to a point where they think, I just want to be better or do better. And often it’s not about being or doing better, it’s about finding strategies that work. Because neurotypical strategies don’t always hit the mark. And people, I guess, commonly you think they need to be more organised. But often, it’s not the organisation that needs to come first. It’s that decluttering and just getting rid of the things that aren’t serving you. And you talk about the kind of dopamine hit of buying something new and shiny, and I did attend a webinar and it was interesting. It was talking about different stages of life and between 20 and 40 we solve problems by buying things. You know, is that accumulation stage of life: house, car, career, kids, you know, pets, whatever it is that you want, it’s that kind of stage of life. And we often solve problems by buying things. So, whether it’s storage boxes, or a new notebook or something for the house, you know, that kind of thing. So, yeah, it’s definitely quite a prevalent issue going on.
Emma Cossey
Oh, I can so relate to the buying things to fix things like I’m constantly going on Amazon Go. Yep, if I just buy that one thing, that will fix that whole issue for me. And I do apply that to tools and online things and apps and things like that as well because sometimes we are just looking for a fix to make our lives easier. And I think there’s also something interesting that you touched on there. I think people get confused between organising, cleaning, and decluttering. And I think from my personal experience, what I found is the more I declutter, the more cleaning and organising becomes easier. But also, I think, we were kind of touching on just before we spoke, it hit a cord about organising and storage. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about that.
Susie Boutal
Yeah, absolutely. So, as we said, organising isn’t the same as decluttering. And organising things, obviously it’s good. It keeps things in the right places but you need to know what stuff you want first, and what’s actually useful to organise because you don’t want to be organising things that actually you don’t really want in the first place. And then the thing about storage, and I call it the myth of storage, because, again, it’s that accumulation and fixing things you think, well, I’ll buy a lovely box or a new unit to put everything in, but again, you’re just storing things for, for what I guess, is the question. And yeah, I guess there’s lots in the media and television and tips online about these beautiful hacks for organising and storing things. But actually, I guess how I work differently is getting really under the skin of what’s behind the clutter, whether it’s in your home in your mind or on your desk, in your client list. And that I find makes the biggest impact for people.
Emma Cossey
I think one of the things that identified when we’re having our sessions was the cycles that I found cycles very difficult like, I think I confessed early on, my biggest nemesis is the dishwasher. I could not work out how and we dug down in and worked out a lot, but filling the dishwasher fine, that’s like Tetris, I enjoy that. Emptying the dishwasher required so many micro decisions and the more clutter you have, the more micro decisions you have to make about everything. And even like my desk, we had a decluttering session last week in my office, all virtually, it’s actually very handy and I have a tendency to fill all the spaces so I’ve got a printer next to me and I usually have some kind of wire basket that everything gets dumped in there. It never has a home, it never gets put away because everything just gets dumped. And it’s too many micro decisions. So, we took the basket away, and there’s now my picture frame with some of my coaching quotes and things that I’d like to look at while I’m on call. And it was quite eye opening to realise actually, all those storage boxes and things, it’s just putting off more micro decisions, but it doesn’t make you feel any better.
Susie Boutal
Yeah, exactly. And I think as you say, it’s when things have been in a certain position in your house or on your desk, or even in your mind, you know, if you’re thinking about mental clutter from past relationships, or things like that, I think it’s easy to kind of ignore them. It’s almost that nose blind effect, but a clutter blind effect, because you’re just so used to that item or piece of storage being there. So I think, yeah, it’s kind of a, what I find useful is taking the box, the drawer, the tray, the gold basket out of this space that it’s in, and looking at it in a different space, because then you really do see the items that you’re kind of trying to get rid of, or repurpose. So, I guess a top tip, and in that respect is if there is an area, or maybe it’s your desk, or clothes, or whatever it is, get a bag for life, I really like those big strong bags, fill it up, take it somewhere else, set a timer for say, you know, even five minutes is worth doing. But 15 if you can manage and sort the things through and complete the cycle. So don’t just make another pile, put things straight in the bin, straight in the recycling, straight in your car, if you need to take it somewhere else and having a time limit I think appeals to neurodivergent people as well, to kind of keep it manageable.
Emma Cossey
Yeah, I’m always shocked how quick a job can actually be done. But it sits there in my brain for hours, days, weeks, months. I must declutter that. And then it takes 5/10 minutes. And I’m like, how has that been taking residence in my brain for so long? And it’s so simple to do. So, you mentioned that was one of your top tips. Do you have any other top tips for people who are thinking that they need to declutter a little bit and simplify?
Susie Boutal
Yeah, I would say to start with being more aware during your day, as you’re kind of going about your business of things that you notice, you know, try and notice things that are either annoying you or out of place, or that you trip over. Because until you kind of start to acknowledge things, it’s very difficult to start decluttering. And as a whole, the word decluttering, it generally means a big overwhelming job. And it could be from your one room to a whole house and breaking it down, I think is a top tip. Break it down, notice what’s really getting in your way and however is easier to record that. So, either notebook or voice notes, or even if you can deal with that thing there and then. So as you come downstairs in the morning, if you’ve got stuff there, if there is time, just do it, you know. And as Emma said, five minutes, you can actually get quite a lot done once you’ve got that focus of what you’re going to do with that five minutes.
Emma Cossey
I love your tip as well about putting it in a bag, because I now, I always think oh, I’ve got to go home and do the stairs. And it’s boring, I’m gonna sit on the stairs and go through all that stuff. And now I just go with a basket to the stairs, sweep it all into the basket or the bag, and then just go sit on the sofa with it, watching the Goodwitch, sorting through it. It’s much more enjoyable then. So that is such a useful tip, but it made such a difference to my mindset around that.
Susie Boutal
Yeah, and I think when you can see that clear space immediately, it does give you a boost or you know, dopamine boost, and it makes you, it kind of spares you on a bit to complete the task. And I’d also say control the controllables. And that was something I heard on another podcast from a military fighter pilot, so quite different topic, but I thought it was quite a useful concept. You know, you can spend a lot of time, I guess feeling negative about can’t always do it because of time and other people in the house and there’s just so much and I don’t know where to start. And obviously that’s really common and valid to feel that way. But think about what can you do rather than what you can’t do. And even if you just move one thing into the rubbish bin or decide on one thing, you know, that’s progress. And that’s kind of negatively impacting or positively impacting or counteracting what’s coming into your house. And so that’s I guess that’s another tip is, buy less than you throw and you’ll eventually reduce the number of things in your house.
Emma Cossey
Yeah, that’s the bit I’m still working on. I may have gone out yesterday and bought some Halloween and Autumn bits because that is my addiction. But I’m gonna try and throw out some other bits or donate some other bits as well. I wanted to also ask you a bit about biggest mistakes. Because I think there are some kind of common things, I think a lot of people feel a lot of guilt around throwing things away or never getting around to donating and things like that. So, I just wondered if there’s any kind of other big mistakes that people make?
Susie Boutal
Yeah, so along with the storage mistake, I think another thing people were generally a little fearful of when they hear the word decluttering is that they do have to have an empty Pinterest house. But I think the point of it is to have a house or a space that is serving you and not believe that kind of that one size fits all. And also, you can keep whatever you want to keep, so don’t make the mistake of thinking you’re going to be ripped away from all of the sentimental items and things that you just love having around. It doesn’t need to be minimalist, your space, your desk, your house, it’s for you. And you know that personalised approach and working out what you want is the way to do it rather than thinking it’s all or nothing. I think that’s a big mistake people make.
Emma Cossey
I think it’s just there’s so much pressure to do things perfectly. And actually, it’s that whole classic progress is better than perfection. And just you don’t have to declutter to the point of having the perfect minimalist house. And I think that minimalist versus maximalist, like there’s no in between, and I think that’s where people, because that’s what you see on Instagram, you either see the people who’ve got the incredible beautiful houses that have got loads of detail, loads of nice knickknacks and things, or the Mrs. Hinch, and she is lovely, but she is not, she is not what I’m aiming for. Partly because I have read somewhere recently, neurotypical advice is not for you. And that’s what I’m trying to apply to this kind of thing. Because I’m a neurodivergent person, there’s no point me taking advice on having a home like that, I need to have a look at neurodivergent homes as well. But yes, lots of kind of interesting, I think a lot of beliefs and stuff tend to come up and decluttering as well, do you find that tends to happen?
Susie Boutal
Yeah, you’re right. It’s, you know, people hold on to a lot of beliefs, and especially when it is somebody with neurodiversity. It’s because they’ve often spent a long part of their life feeling not quite good enough, a bit ashamed, shameful of their space, or why can’t I just keep on top of things, that kind of feeling. So yeah, we definitely do a lot of beliefs work around what’s going on underneath the surface. Also values and really getting clear on what’s important to you, because not everyone won’t use their space in the same way. So, you know, I think if you have a family, you need to have a home that’s fit for a family. If you’re a freelancer, you need to have a good space to work and, you know, help with that separation of work and home. So, yeah, I think it’s really important when thinking about decluttering, is really getting clear on what’s your vision for your home. Making it work for you and a lot of times as you say, people try and emulate things that just isn’t going to work for them. You know, you don’t want to have an empty Spartan house, if you’ve got loads of kids and pets and you know, family coming and you want something different. So yeah, I think that’s really important as well.
Emma Cossey
So, I think one of the things that is also really interesting is when you work from home, and this will apply to a lot of freelancers. I mean, traditionally, this would have applied to often the woman who stayed at home or the mother or but I think now it is changed to more whoever is primarily spending the time in the home during the day, it then becomes almost something that then defaults to being their responsibility. And it becomes I think, difficult to set that boundary between what is cleaning up the mess that they create during the day. And what is suddenly being responsible for everything in the home, just because they are at home more. I don’t know if you find that this is a problem that some of your clients face.
Susie Boutal
Yeah, I mean, as you say, it’s often a female that will get in touch with me. It’s often somebody who does work from home because I think in society, it has always defaulted, as you say to the person at home, which is usually a female. And I think there’s you know, just the general perception that whoever’s at home more must have the time to do all the things that I think you know, as you say, especially when you’re a freelancer, you’re doing everything from home. You’re working just as valid a role as anyone who leaves the house to work. So, I think it’s important to set the boundaries. Work out what’s your boundaries, and what the kind of the share of the divide of that kind of house mental load and physical load is and how it works with your freelance life. And I think sometimes when you are freelance or work from home, the boundaries are quite blurred anyway, so I think it’s even more important to be clear on when you want to be doing house tasks. Because yes, it’s possible but is it actually going to be serving you to do that. So, I think that’s an important conversation or communication point to have with any of the adults that you might live with, and, remembering that it’s a joint responsibility to keep a house or a home, hygienically liveable. I think there’s a kind of basic standard that should be agreed and maintained as a partnership. And then obviously thinking about some people will have more of a preference for a clearer area, whereas some people are quite happy with having lots of things around. So, I just think it’s a conversation to be had and, just yeah, set your boundaries and don’t fall into the trap of picking everything up and, and doing everything.
Emma Cossey
Yeah, spot on. Yeah, I think the expectations conversation is a particularly interesting one, because I often put a lot of pressure on myself but actually, my husband is very relaxed with how the house would be. He’s like, I know, some people’s partners will come home and expect the house to look tidy. He’s just glad I haven’t accidentally burned it down in some kind of ADHD myself. So, he’s generally pretty relaxed about that kind of thing. But I had put a lot of pressure on myself. I had high expectations based on everything I’ve seen in social media and everything like that. And feeling like as, as a working Mum, I had to be doing everything. But having that conversation is actually a really good thing to clarify it. But also, if there is an issue there, then having that conversation to be able to overcome that and come to a compromise. So that was really interesting, thank you. So, I wanted to talk a little bit more about how you help people. So, you mentioned before the recording that you’ve just actually, I think just literally this week launched a new quiz. Is that right?
Susie Boutal
Yeah, so I have a new quiz on my website. And it kind of stemmed from the need that, you know, a lot of people come with physical clutter being at the top of their mind. And, you know, I really want to communicate the concept of the mental and emotional clutter as well. And actually, when you tackle all three, that’s when you really do get some traction, and just regaining the space, and whatever it is that you’re looking for, and diminishing that overwhelm, and that kind of thing. So, I’ve put a quiz together on my website, which will help you to work out where your biggest clutter challenge is. So, you may think it’s difficult, but it really helps understand what else might be going on. Looking at all sorts of things, from relationships to feelings to, yes, there’s the kind of look of the home and what’s going on there as well, but also how you use storage. And yeah, lots of different thinking points in the quiz. So hopefully it will be good fun as well I think.
Emma Cossey
And where can people find you, like your website and your social media handles and things like that?
Susie Boutal
Yep. So, my website is aspaceforliving.co.uk, you’ll find the quiz there and all the information about what I can offer. I’m on Instagram, @aspaceforliving and Facebook, A Space for Living. And I also have a Facebook group. So, if you want to join, it’s a lovely community on there, you know, tips and questions and things all day. That’s A Space for Living as a Facebook group as well.
Emma Cossey
Fantastic, and I know that people are interested in working with you. It’s really nice, because it’s a mix of sessions where you deep dive into more of the emotional issues under decluttering. Because that is really important. And then you do body doubling sessions, basically helping work through some things at a time, which I found really really useful to A) get me just started on doing something and then B) sometimes just me talking through some of the things that I’ve got, I’m thinking do I need it or not? It really helps give me clarity. So if you think you want to work with Susie, that gives you kind of an idea of how it is. Thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to mention before we finish up the podcast?
Susie Boutal
Yeah, just to say that whatever point you are in, your kind of declutter journey, whether you’re feeling completely overwhelmed, or actually you’re, you know, you’re maintaining a really good space. I think, just know that you’re doing your best and you know, it’s not a morality issue if you like. You know, you could have the messiest, dirtiest house, it doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. It’s not a moral issue. So I guess that’s, yeah, final words on that.
Emma Cossey
So often, it’s an executive function issue. And it’s, I think, I do mention that about ADHD a lot on this, but I think that’s part of my personal experience, but also, I see it a lot in the ADHD groups I’m in. And I just see the word lazy come up so often. And that’s not the case with most ADHD people I know because most of them, it isn’t laziness. It’s they will sit there and they will stare at that part that they need to declutter for weeks, months, years, want to do it, and they can never get the executive function. Whereas if you are lazy, and I’m not even sure I believe in laziness, but if you were lazy, you just don’t care. You just think I don’t care about that. If you have executive function issues, you care a lot, but you can’t get it started. Which is why your coaching is really good for that kind of thing.
Susie Boutal
Yeah, I don’t believe in lazy either.
Emma Cossey
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast Susie. I hope people have taken away some tips and I’d love it if you shared if you were a bit motivated by this episode and decided to go declutter something. Actually, what would be amazing is if during this episode, you were decluttering as you were listening, that would be the ideal. But thank you very much for joining me Susie, and I’ll see you on the next episode.
Susie Boutal
Thanks for having me.